Please use this thread for any comments on the comp or F1 in general.

Then move Charlies fantastic post to here.
Most peeps don't read General Sports (sadly).
He's an expert on F1 in my opinion and always has an interesting fresh view on F1.

Can i say ? The results should stand unless there is a proper breach of rules. This fing wiv Brawn is fine as far as we know + the uva teams are against it as it will take them 3-4 races 2 adjust their cars. They are all looking at doing the same fing, but need time. If the ruling goes against Brawn then Ferrari etc wont change, but theyre actually workin on changing it now.

Charlie
Group Class

Posted 27 March 2009 08:57 AM Hide Post
Hi Lurcher
Well, where to start lol. There are so many unknowns this year, with all the rule changes, it's like starting again. Especially when you look at the results of the two practice sessions.

Practice 1
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 01:26.7 19
2 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 01:26.7 0.049 21
3 4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 01:26.8 0.063 24
4 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 01:27.2 0.539 21
5 2 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 01:27.5 0.766 15
6 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 01:27.5 0.78 12
7 3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 01:27.6 0.955 24
8 10 Timo Glock Toyota 01:27.7 1.023 24
9 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 01:28.0 1.306 20
10 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 01:28.1 1.436 16
11 6 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 01:28.1 1.45 20
12 9 Jarno Trulli Toyota 01:28.1 1.455 21
13 5 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 01:28.5 1.824 22
14 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 01:28.6 1.916 16
15 12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 01:28.8 2.098 27
16 1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 01:29.0 2.355 18
17 14 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 01:29.1 2.394 7
18 8 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 01:29.5 2.774 25
19 11 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 01:29.5 2.812 21
20 15 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 01:32.8 6.097 4

Practice 2
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 01:26.1 36
2 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 01:26.2 0.104 38
3 9 Jarno Trulli Toyota 01:26.3 0.297 42
4 14 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 01:26.4 0.317 30
5 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 01:26.4 0.321 38
6 10 Timo Glock Toyota 01:26.4 0.39 42
7 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 01:26.6 0.507 33
8 15 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 01:26.7 0.687 19
9 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 01:27.0 0.987 29
10 3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 01:27.1 1.011 35
11 4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 01:27.2 1.151 32
12 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 01:27.2 1.179 28
13 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 01:27.3 1.229 32
14 6 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 01:27.3 1.264 34
15 5 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 01:27.4 1.345 36
16 11 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 01:27.5 1.426 36
17 2 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 01:27.8 1.749 35
18 1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 01:27.8 1.76 31
19 8 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 01:27.8 1.775 35
20 12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 01:28.1 2.023 33

It seems that the teams with the 'challenged' diffuser are the ones to be on! Williams (Toyota engine), Toyota & Brawn (Mercedes engine). As I understand it, they have been declared legal but an appeal has been lodged. However that will not be heard until after the Malaysian GP...until then they ARE legal & any results gained by those teams will stand. If they are declared illegal after the appeal the 3 teams will have to change them but...if they are declared legal the other 7 teams will have to change theirs as they reckon it's worth something like 0.6 secs a lap. A huge amount! For the other teams it will probably mean having to do major re-design work because their current configuration is part & parcel of the whole car & that could be difficult.
I'm still not sure who's going to be where at the moment & I wondered if Brawn had been running light in testing to attract sponsorship, it seems they weren't. They have, of course, been working on the car since early last year. As Honda they pretty much gave up on last season & put all their effort into this years car before pulling out. So a lot of the ground work was done when Brawn finally came into existence. The only problem really could be reliability, with so little testing, but I reckon they'll be ok. Can they win the Championship? I'm not sure. They have two very good drivers & more importantly Ross Brawn. The man who engineered Schumacher at Benetton & Ferrari...can't get much better than him at the moment!
I like Williams though. As a long time fan of theirs I always hope for a good season for them, hopefully this will be it. Not convinced about Nakajima (that's the price for having the Toyota engine!) but I reckon Rosberg has got what it takes...let's hope so.
Toyota look good as well. Showed great promise last year & looked to have stepped up a gear this year. Trulli, excellent in qualifying is no slouch as a racer either...however, I think Glock will come on this season & edge Trulli.
Ferrari should be their normal competitive selves, though struggling a little in the practice sessions, I expect them to be a bit better for qualifying. I hope Massa does well, Raikkonen let himself down last year & is lucky to still be there in my book. However Massa did all that was expected of him (bar a couple of mistakes) & very nearly took the Championship. I’d like to see him better Raikkonen again this year.
McLaren? Well, it looks like it’s all gone horribly wrong for them at the moment & they’ll certainly be starting on the back foot. I don’t mind that, they’re not my favourite team lol. It’ll be interesting though, to see if Kovalainen can match Hamilton. He started well enough last year until that massive shunt at Barcelona. I wonder if that’s knocked a little edge off him.
BMW? Well, as with McLaren, it looks to have gone wrong for them. Doing ok in winter testing, then turning up here only to find they’ve got no grip…oh dear! Kubica even saying he doesn’t recognise this car as the same one he’s been testing. Goodness knows what’s gone wrong & I hope they find out soon because I was expecting them to be challenging for the Championship this year. I expect Kubica to be the stronger of the two although only Heidfeld is going to be using the KERS system at the moment because he is lighter & can get away with it. What I mean by that is that the cars have to be a minimum weight, so the teams build them as light as possible then add weight to the car in the form of ballast. They can put this ballast anywhere they want to balance the car. Because KERS is heavy & raises the centre of gravity, it’s more difficult to balance the car & with a heavier driver, as with Kubica, it’s obviously a problem.
I think you’ll hear more about this as teams try to work with KERS, they’ve already suggested putting up the minimum weight to equalise the situation for the bigger drivers.
Renault? Another team thought to be doing ok, but struggling. You’d expect it of Piquet (another one lucky to keep his job) but I’d have liked to see Alonso a bit higher up the time sheets. Reckoned to be the best all round driver out there & a real fighter, I hope better things happen for him, though it looks unlikely here.
Red Bull (Renault engine)? Did well in the 2nd practice session & with Webber & Vettel, one of the stronger driver combinations who should push each other really hard & that can only be good for them & the team…hope they do well.
STR (Ferrari engine) Had their maiden win last year at Monza…but that was with Vettel! Bourdais didn’t show too much last year & drivers who come over from American racing don’t normally do that well (unless they’re in a top car like Villeneuve in the Williams who was then hopeless in the BAR!) Their other driver, Buemi, is new to F1 & I wouldn’t expect much from him.
Force India (Mercedes engine). Well, a bit of a surprise if you go by the practice sessions. Not sure if they’ll be able to keep it up as the season goes on. Sutil seems like a reasonable driver but Fisichella keeps falling asleep during a race…always has done & another one lucky still to be in F1.

Betting?
Ha… I might have a little dabble before qualifying…Rosberg to win (between 5/1 & 9/1) & the two Toyotas e/w (between 16/1 & 25/1)
Phew, I’m knackered now…got to give my fingers a rest lol.
I probably won’t be around over the weekend, so good luck if you have a dabble & I’ll catch you later! Wink

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charlie, 27 March 2009 02:40 PM

Posts: 852 | Registered: 23 June 2003

This post had to be here.

I didn't know Branson was behind the Brawn team.
A coupla months ago Honda were down and out couldn't sell second hand cars to a used car salesman.
Then almost all of a sudden (to me anyway)Ross comes in (a motor genious)and things turn around?
I get a whiff of Bernie Eccles here and his interfering (now that his marriage is down the shoot he needs to get even more involved).
What I don't understand really is how can they develop a car that seems to be fundamentally different from anybody elses in that short space of time.
Why didn't McLaren do it?
When you have a moment Charlie please spell it out to me

A diffuser, in an automotive context, is a shaped section of the car underbody which improves the car's aerodynamic properties by enhancing the transition between the high-velocity airflow underneath the car and the much slower freestream airflow of the ambient atmosphere. It works by providing a space for the underbody airflow to decelerate and expand so that the boundary between the car's airflow and "external" airflow is less turbulent. It also provides a degree of "wake infill" (the wake being a turbulent area of low pressure that is caused by the passage of the vehicle through the air; this can cause pressure drag).

As the air enters towards the front of the car it accelerates and reduces pressure. There is a second suction peak at the transition of the flat bottom and diffuser. The diffuser then eases this high velocity air back to normal velocity and also helps fill in the area behind the car making the whole underbody a more efficient downforce producing device by reducing drag on the car and increasing downforce.

The aft part of a car underbody can be a diffuser. It works to bring the low pressure air below the car back to the ambient atmospheric pressure without inducing turbulence. It uses Bernoulli's principle, such that the pressure increases while the velocity decreases. Since the pressure below the car is lower than on the side and above the car, downforce is produced if implemented correctly. Injecting the exhaust into the rear diffuser can also help extract the air from below the car. The exhaust gasses effectively energize the boundary layer, helping to raise the pressure of the low-pressure, fast-moving airstream back to the ambient atmospheric pressure at the exit of the diffuser. This helps extract the air more efficiently from the underbody.

Note that the front of the car slows down the air without a diffuser making this the ideal place for an inlet. Instead, a splitter is commonly used here. The splitter serves to reduce the pressure below the front of the car and thereby increase the amount of downforce in that region. The airstream is brought to stagnation above the splitter, by an air dam, causing an area of high pressure. Below the splitter, air is accelerated, as stated above, which causes the pressure to drop and create downforce. Some race cars, such as the Toyota GT-One actually use a proper diffuser in this area to help create more downforce.

And nobody else thought of this like?

Well I think that's pretty clear
You still have to drive it mind

A friend of mine said F1 racing is akin to Government...full of jiggery pokery and they change the rules in a heartbeat.
Anybody got a flatshare that I can offset my tax allowances?
I'll just say I'm visiting bit like Harriet Huh Person and Tony McNaughty.
I digress

Branson woz the 1st person expected 2 buy out Honda F1 team, now he is their number 1 sponsor. R.B woz the brain that allowed Ferrari 2 rise again + dominate, he is the master when it comes 2 F1 car development. Yer Mr Lurch, i like my F1, anyfing 2 do wiv speed etc

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBB,

Moved Reply:

Mugz can you check my score, and can you confirm that you are allowed to amend predictions after final qualifiying.

Moved Reply:

That's a very subtle way of letting Mugz know that barrie broke the rules.

Moved Reply:

The entry deadline for R1 is 1600 local time (0500 GMT) on Sat 29 March 2009.

If an entry is posted after the entry deadline it will be void and a default entry given to that player (see 8).

Moved Reply:

quote:

Originally posted by barrie.r.bartle:
The entry deadline for R1 is 1600 local time (0500 GMT) on Sat 29 March 2009.

If an entry is posted after the entry deadline it will be void and a default entry given to that

player (see 8).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: barrie.r.bartle, 28 March 2009 08:42 PM

Moved Reply:

Looks like barrie has found a loophole due to Mugz mistakenly stating Saturday 29th when in fact the Saturday was the 28th.

Moved Reply:

7. ENTRY DEADLINE
The entry deadline will be posted on the OFFICIAL RACE THREAD and will be before the start of the FINAL QUALIFYING SESSION.

Moved Reply:

I do not disagree with you clocker, which ever way you look at it barrie has amended his post AFTER the qualifying session.

Over to you Mugz to make a ruling (especially as barrie has (cleverly) used his PDR to double his points.

sorry I didnt spot the edit time, and sorry to barrie.r.bartle, the comp rules clearly state that the entry deadline will be before the qualifying session.

Moved Reply:

Can you please tell me were i went wrong

Lewis Hamilton and McLaren have been disqualified from last week's Australian Grand Prix after race stewards decided that the reigning world champion had deliberately misled them when providing evidence about an incident that saw him passed by Jarno Trulli during a safety car period.

The Italian was handed a 25-second penalty following the incident on lap 57 at Melbourne, which relegated him from third to 12th in the final classification and saw Hamilton promoted from fourth to third.

But both drivers were called before the stewards in Sepang today to address new evidence on the incident.

Following the hearing, the stewards decided to reinstate Trulli's third place and to sanction Hamilton and McLaren by excluding them from the race classification.

They explained their decision in a statement, which read: "The stewards having considered the new elements presented to them from the 2009 Australian Formula One Grand Prix, consider that driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and the competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes acted in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the Stewards at the hearing on Sunday 29th March 2009, a breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

"Under Article 158 of the International Sporting Code the driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and the competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes are excluded from the race classification for the 2009 Australian Grand Prix and the classification is amended accordingly."

I think me and Lewis Hamilton must be feeling the same

5. CHANGING SELECTIONS & EDITING POSTS
A player CAN edit entries to change selections or to add a PDR.

Please note that if the edit time is after the entry deadline the post is void and the player will score 0 points for the race.


7. ENTRY DEADLINE
The entry deadline will be posted on the OFFICIAL RACE THREAD and will be before the start of the FINAL QUALIFYING SESSION.

If an entry is posted after the entry deadline it will be void and a default entry given to that player (see 8).


Not sure why breaking rule 5 gets a player no points while breaking rule 7 gets the player a default entry. Essentially the same rule with very different penalties.

What a complete farce F1 is becoming.
As somebody said on the BBC website...you may as well not bother to watch the race live anymore stay in bed on Sunday and watch the results unfold on the news during the next week.

Just remembered.

Rule 5 is aimed at preventing someone from editing their post deliberately to receive a default entry rather than their original selections.

What is to stop someone from deleting their original post and reposting after the deadline to achieve the same thing?

All i did was add the PDR and never realised i was in the wrong yet my punishment was a total DQ yet over people getting defaults by a small loophole

Hi all
Todays practice times...I'll try & do a write up tomorrow

Practice session 1

Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:36.260 27
2 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:36.305 0.045 25
3 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 1:36.430 0.170 20
4 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 1:36.487 0.227 22
5 3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:36.561 0.301 21
6 4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:36.646 0.386 18
7 1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.699 0.439 16
8 14 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:36.703 0.443 23
9 15 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:36.747 0.487 25
10 10 Timo Glock Toyota 1:36.980 0.720 27
11 9 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:36.982 0.722 26
12 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 1:37.025 0.765 20
13 5 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 1:37.039 0.779 18
14 8 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:37.199 0.939 20
15 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:37.241 0.981 18
16 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:37.395 1.135 12
17 12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:37.634 1.374 22
18 6 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:37.640 1.380 17
19 11 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:38.022 1.762 19
20 2 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:38.483 2.223 7

Practice session 2

Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:35.707 40
2 3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:35.832 0.125 38
3 15 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:35.954 0.247 40
4 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:36.015 0.308 39
5 14 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:36.026 0.319 36
6 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 1:36.161 0.454 37
7 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 1:36.254 0.547 31
8 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:36.290 0.583 35
9 2 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.397 0.690 40
10 8 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:36.401 0.694 35
11 1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.515 0.808 30
12 9 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:36.516 0.809 34
13 12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:36.628 0.921 32
14 10 Timo Glock Toyota 1:36.639 0.932 29
15 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:36.640 0.933 20
16 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:36.875 1.168 36
17 5 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 1:37.267 1.560 38
18 11 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:37.278 1.571 30
19 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 1:37.432 1.725 27
20 6 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:37.930 2.223 37